For a year we’ve been trying to figure out what’s happening with the Italian Spaghetti House, just across from Maple Leaf at 9824 Lake City Way N.E.
David Miller, president of the Maple Leaf Community Council Executive Board, shares this tidbit in an email to the Maple Leaf Business Subcommittee (which you can sign up for here):
Some of you may have noticed the remodeling going on at the site of the former Italian Spaghetti House restaurant. According to Seattle Department of Planning and Development, indications are a liquor store will be going in at this location. We’ve notified Wedgwood (the site is in their neighborhood boundaries). We’d appreciate your thoughts on this. We’re looking into the code, but we doubt there is anything we could do about this even if the neighborhood reached consensus something needed to be done…
What are your thoughts on a liquor store replacing the Italian Spaghetti House?
We had a liquor store in our neighborhood for decades, was not a problem, was convenient, good service, lower prices than now, good selection. Maybe we should get the State involved in liquor sales?
@Susan – it would be great if there were a Meadowbrook blog to help fill in the gap of neighborhood news.
All – I hope I’m not out of line to mention my husband’s blog about Victory Heights: http://victoryheights.org/wp/.
@Dan:
Thanks for the info on the place near 85th in Greenwood. I will have to check it out soon.
Also, I agree with your comments about trying to find a decent balance between improving a neighborhood and over legislation. The problem with running out and putting in place more government rules is that it often turns into a slippery slope with no stopping point. A little here, a little there, and then all of sudden there is so much government influence you can’t do anything. And rolling back legislation is always harder than putting it in place. It’s a hard balance to find. I have friends on city councils and a friend that was Gary Locke’s legal adviser for both terms and I can say that most of the time the public is ignorant to all the factors involved and the process that must be followed. They just show up to meetings or on message boards and complain without all the information or the facts from all sides. I don’t envy anyone having to work within the regulations and inefficient government processes while having to listen to the often misinformed public opinions.
I saw this on an SDOT website regarding speeding in neighborhoods.
“speeding is a concern for many of our residential neighborhoods, and addressing this concern requires active participation by residents working in a strong partnership with SDOT. Together, we seek ways to influence the generally reasonable driver to travel on your street in a safe and prudent manner. It is always done in a phased approach starting with ensuring that SDOT and the community have a clear and common understanding of the concern. We then seek ways of educating the drivers that use the street, whether they live in your neighborhood or elsewhere, and directing enforcement where it will have the most benefit. Traffic calming devices such as speed humps may not be the best answer to a speeding problem. Every traffic calming device has advantages and disadvantages and selecting the device that is most appropriate for the street is a collaborative process. As we move through the process, we might identify relatively simple measures (such as reconfiguring parking on your street), or develop traffic calming projects that are both feasible and fundable. Interested? Go to our Traffic Calming Program.
There’s a balance to be struck between improving the neighborhood’s QOL and over-legislation and rules by big government. When businesses we don’t religiously or morally like move into empty storefronts, I don’t see trying to stop them. And traffic speed issues can often be better addressed with speed bumps and traffic circles in specific areas instead of government surveillance cameras or reducing traffic speeds everywhere.
@Justin:
http://www.mapleleafcommunity.org/pp/start.html
And, for the record, I was overly harsh to Jeff. He’s a former Board member from back in the day and didn’t deserve me jumping all over him. The crack at the end of my post about his profession was out of bounds.
I am very much inclined to defend the MLCC’s decades of work to improve our neighbohood’s quality of life. When presented with words like “prissy and condescending”, that inclination sometimes leads me to be more aggressive than is warranted.
Sorry, Jeff. Thanks for your prior commitment to the MLCC.
David Miller
I will vote for Mr. Miller. And how do I donate to the Maple Leaf Community Council?
Liquor sure is more expensive since Costco bought that election.
“A cool idea might be a liquor store and bar hybrid if that is even possible. It would be cool to be able to buy a bottle and then head over to a nice seating area and drink it with friends. The place could sell mixers and food.”
I don’t think it can have full liquor and do this. There’s a great place in Greenwood that does this with beer on 85th. They have like 50 beers on tap and 100s of brands in bottles. You can buy growlers to go. And they have a deck and indoor seating that’s often filled with people from the neighborhood sampling beers. It’s really great and neighborhoody. I was hoping that place next to The Hudson would turn into something like it.
At least it will not be yet another medical marijuana dispensary on Lake City Way. I counted five of these dispensaries between the 1-5 exit and 125 th street along Lake City Way. There sure are a lot of folks that need to smoke pot around here. I wonder if these “dispensaries” will limit the sucess of the proposed liquor store.
Well said Sue!
Being a community activist is very hard work and to represent a group as well is even harder. This is a volunteer job where you often wonder why oh why am I putting myself through all of this, it’s just not worth it. Agree with them or not please repect what a huge task it is that few want to do. If no one cared and put in the work this community would look entirely differently, believe me.
David, I take it from your frequent posts that you will not be seeking elected office ? Be like Mike, and stop talking if you want to be elected or reelected.
Mr. Miller, the next time the Community Council asks me for a donation, you can forget about it.
@Jeff – First, any Maple Leaf business owner who thinks we are “controlling and prissy” should tell us as our job is to represent them. That’s why we have a Business Subcommittee.
And second, I challenge you to point out anywhere in this discussion where we are attempting to micromanage this property.
This project is “outside” our neighborhood by being across the street. Hardly what anyone would consider outside the boundaries of what might legitimately concern us.
I realize there are always one or two in every crowd and you’ve decided to be that person in this thread. Without over-reacting to your trolling, it needs to be stated that we take our role as elected representatives very seriously. If you think we’re doing it wrong, vote us out.
Finally, if you think the Fifth Amendment allows a property owner to do whatever they want with their property, you have some reading to do on land use regulations. Perhaps you should stick to personal injury law.
David Miller
Mr. Miller, you want to micromanage commercial property located outside of Maple Leaf. And you have nothing but snide remarks for anybody who stands up for the property rights in the Fifth Amendment. When my friends who own businesses in Maple Leaf complain about the controlling and prissy attitude of some members of the Community Council, I at last see what they mean.
@Jeff, so you’re volunteering for the car wrecking yard to go in next door to your house?
Sue, we don’t object to there being retail. In fact, we WANT it to be retail store fronts. The developer is proposing it be apartments (the code term is “live/work”, but they look and almost certainly will be filled as apartments) and not retail storefronts.
It is zoned NC2-40, in the Northgate Overlay, and in a Pedestrian-Zone.
Lake City and Lake City Way is seriously becoming a one stop shop for all the basic needs. Here is how a imagine a nice afternoon:
Stop by Fred Meyer to get some basic house supplies and maybe a new DVD. Then head on over to the gun shop to stock up on more ammo. Then stroll on over to the liquor store and get a little tipsy. Then stop by Ricks or Pandora’s for a couple of lap dances. After that you can swing by one of the pot depots and get some weed to get high, which will undoubtedly make you hungry, so you can swing by Dicks on the way home for a handful of cheeseburgers, an order of fries, and a vanilla milkshake. Now, that is one nice leisurely Saturday 🙂
All joking aside, I am on board with the “nicer” liquor store. That would be a lot better than a vacant building that will surely get covered in graffiti the longer it sits vacant. A cool idea might be a liquor store and bar hybrid if that is even possible. It would be cool to be able to buy a bottle and then head over to a nice seating area and drink it with friends. The place could sell mixers and food.
I say let the property owners use it the way they want to. That’s why we buy land – so we can use it.
This is wandering a bit but after reading Davids letter (link) I’m wondering why there is objection to a retail use of ground level next to Snappy Dragon? Can we start a new topic and discuss this? It is zoned Neighborhood Commercial I believe.
I’m a typical left-leaning, Subaru-driving Maple Leaf resident. But I take issue with the presumption that perhaps “something needs to be done” in cases like this. This is a business-zoned property, and a legal business. End of story.
There is a nice liquor store in Wallingford on 45th across the street from Dick’s Hamburgers – Emerald City Liquor and Wine. Family owned too and the selection there is great. Has helped stem the frustration of having to search to find the liquors I want. Would like to see a similar one a bit closer though.
I was really hoping for a Trader Joe’s but will be happy if it is nice liquour store. With the new liquour laws, I find I have to go to 3 stores instead of just one because no one carries a good selection. There are many things I can’t find at all anymore.
This new store is in Meadowbrook but unfortunately we Meadowbrookers have to look to Maple Leaf Life, Wedgwood View and Lake City Live for our neighborhood info. Living at the top of the hill on 98th (Meadowbrook side), I would really like to see some speed mitigation or sidewalks. I am surprised that some cars don’t gain air while cresting the hill on 98th they go so fast between 27th and 32nd.
We on the Meadowbrook side of 98th are jealous of the Maple Leaf 98thers due to their ability to get chicanes, roundabouts, road closures due to snow and cute little signs to slow down due to kids. We haven’t even been able to get a speed tracker sign and the only roundabout we have is at 32nd where the cars slow down anyway.
I’m not one to mind. I mean, it’s not like that particular stretch of Lake City Way was fantastic to begin with.
Like other posters, I would actually welcome a nice liquor store. It’s within walking distance to my house.
But as aid before, if it’s a typical Lake City Way type of low-rent shop, then blah.
Given the choice of anything, I would take a good restaurant with a nice bar where I wouldn’t mind spending a couple of hours on a Friday night with cocktails and good music. But that type of thing seems to only exist in hipper neighborhoods.
The north boundary of Wedgwood is 95th, so this is officially in Meadowbrook.
David
One more thing, I thought this was inside Meadowbrook’s boundaries, not Wedgwood (?). This area is kind of lost between Wedgwood, Maple Leaf, Meadow Brook, and Victory Heights.
Good point, Dan. It’s had to imagine a nicer, high-class liquor store going in beside a medical grass shop and the bikini barista. I would love for it to be a small market… with liquor. The people in this area need a closer grocery shopping option. (Gas stations don’t count.)
98th really isn’t my worry. It’s Ravenna Ave between 95th and 98th. People regularly bike, walk and jog along this curved stretch and I am surprised that more people are not hit on a regular basis. And I am not being dramatic. Too often cars pass bikers on the curve with out slowing down. Actually, vehicles regularly straddle the middle of the road while taking the turn for no apparent reason.
Tough rocks on Maple Leaf.
@EnduroDriver – Land use rules explicitly tie new uses to transportation effects. It’s a standard criteria and has been for decades.
On another note, here’s an interesting fact…
I-1183, the initiative that privatized our liquor store industry, actually failed in Maple Leaf. 52.63% of Maple Leafers voted “no”. This is based upon an analysis of the precincts that are wholly or mostly contained within our boundaries.
David
I propose we make 98th an arterial, problem solved!
Well I would make that proposal here if it had anything to do with the topic of this blog post. If you can tie the opening of a small store to creating a traffic problem on 98th then you could probably tie it to Les Schwab tire sales when the weather turns bad, extra holiday traffic at the cat boarding house and the unfinished furniture store’s annual no sales tax event.
Neighborhoods suffered under a SDOT transportation lead who (1) Can’t read scientific research papers despite having an advanced degree, (2) Hated crosswalks, (3) Refused to add any traffic control to neighborhood streets other than circles and chicanes, and (4) was generally a roadblock to every creative approach neighborhood advocates had to controlling speeds.
Fortunately, this person moved on to another department.
The current message from SDOT is they are looking for “systemic” approaches and are willing to me much more creative. The organization is shifting towards being more creative and focusing on actual pedestrian safety instead of strict application of traffic manual minutae.
Stop signs would have been rejected out of hand previously. Might be worth having that conversation again with the new people at SDOT.
David
I grew up in Chehalis, a very small town. They literally have a stop sign at every single block that is not an arterial. No need for lower speeds with that, although it feels pretty crazy. I suppose that would require study as well.
A lower speed limit and enforcement on 98th are our best bets. Please support legislation in Olympia allowing for lower speed limits on non-arterials without needing traffic studies. Stay tuned to MLCC emails and our FB/Twitter page for more information on this as we get closer to session.
David
Not being a Puritan, but being conservative in nature, I am not opposed to a liquor store going in, especially if it has some class and decent selection.
And appealing to my “Puritan” nature and modesty , a liquor shop is much much better than adding another topless joint, Mary Jane dispensary, pawn shop, gun shop, or used car lot. For Lake City/Maple Leaf this business could actually be an asset to the neighborhood.
Every time I read another story about folks in our neighborhood trying to block a local business from opening because it doesn’t fit with their 17th century Puritan ideas of morality, I get that much closer to moving out of Maple Leaf, and into a less closed-minded and judgmental neighborhood. It’s embarrassing.
I agree with Dan. If they’re just going to put in a run-of-the-mill liquor store that offers the same stuff as Safeway and Target and whatever, then whatever. The only way it’ll stay in business very long with that model is if their prices are lower (unlikely). So I shrug if that’s what they’re going to do.
However, if they’re going to put in a unique liquor store that offers real selection with unique offerings and a wide range so that the store is more of a destination like Esquin or Wine World or something, that would be truly awesome to have such a resource nearby.
In either scenario, the only major downside is increased traffic through Maple Leaf: 98th is already severely overloaded with traffic, and East/West cut-through drivers bypassing Northgate Way and 75th are scary. So the community council ought to look at ways of making sure that 98th is protected from any further increase in traffic and that cut-through traffic in the neighborhood generally is minimized.
Well, given any choice in the world, I’d like to have The Italian Spaghetti House replacing the Italian Spaghetti House. However, if there is going to be a liquor store in the location, I’m with Dan. There are plenty of places to get your basic Jack Daniels or Jose Cuervo. What has been more difficult since the changeover, is where to get your Chartreuse, Cocchi Americano, local gin, or heck, even a halfway decent vermouth! Fingers crossed.
It really depends on how they do it. I really like places like Wine World that will carry a variety of higher end liquor, unlike the grocery stores. If it’s on the fancy end and has a lot of variety, it could be an asset to the neighborhood and fill an ugly empty building. But if it’s a low budget liquor mart, it’s going to be lame.
It would be nice if it was a small grocery store that also sold liquor. Living close to this place will suck.